OOC Leader's Meeting, July 14th 1996

in Hell, logged by Kira

Evan wonders if we care about ppl listening through [Hell]?

Evan doesn't personally...
Saffron materializes from places unknown.
In a caricature of Lacyene, the daemon will go 'way if she has to.
Fletcher says, "Nope..."
Bronwyn materializes from places unknown.
You say, "No, its supposed to be a public meeting.  Or thats my understanding.
:)"
D'thon says to Edward, "Oooo! That sounds good.  Gte me one, eh?"
In a caricature of Lacyene, the daemon grins.  and stays, then.  
Evan nods, "'k then."
Shaival finds somewhere to throw his exhausted body.
Edward nods. "Yes Lacy can stay, BTW, I'm representing DolphinCraft tonight.
Sure D'thon."
Brian says, "Every crafters dream.. Telling your IC leader to go to Hell..."
Bronwyn smiles and waves to everyone.  "Hello!"
2 Gargle blaster's float through the air. 1 to D'thon the other to Edward.
In a caricature of Lacyene, the daemon whees and snugs the sitewiz.  everyone
needs a peanut gallery...=)
Seamus rises to a perch upon the ceiling.
Shaival smirks."Uh huh.
Fletcher chuckles.
D'thon snatches the floating Gargle Blaster from the air.
Evan says, "LOL Bri."
Fletcher says, "Are we ready?  Or wait a few more minutes?"
Evan says, "Hey!  Are those pan-galactic Gargle Blasters??"
D'thon guzzles.  "Ah!"
Edward says, "Anyone else want a drink? SUre are." He taps his wand and poof
one appears in Evan's hand."
Luhel materializes from places unknown.
Evan says, "Where's the nearest voluntary orginazation to hlep me recover from
the gold brick wrapped in a slice of lemon?"  he takes a LARGE drink..."
D'thon says, "Luhel to hell.  Does that rhyme?"
Shaival says, "Yep."
Luhel says, "I picked this name on purpose ;)"
Saffron goes home.
Edward says, "How long will this last Fletcher?"
A drudge arrives to cart Annest off to bed.
You say, "Till it's over? :)"
Aeia materializes from places unknown.
D'thon says, "You can pick your name, and you can pick your friends, and you
can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose."
Fletcher says, "However long it needs to.  :)"
Fletcher hi5's Kira.
Luhel chuckles
Kira foofs D'thon.
Aeia snorts at D'thon.
D'thon is foof'd.
Fletcher nods to D'thon.  "My dad and you would get along great, D'thon."
D'thon is snorted at.
D'thon is compared to someone's dad.
Edward chuckles and downs the drink.
Evan wavers to Aeia, and sits down somewhere
Aeia gets out her reheated dinner.
Luhel pours another Doctor Peeper
D'thon wonders if Dr. Peeper would mix well with a pan-galactic etc.
Saffron materializes from places unknown.
Saffron smiles at all present
Fletcher doesn't think you'd be terribly conscious after a pan-galactic grable
blaster to notice.
Rarah materializes from places unknown.
Evan slowly slides under the table the rest of the Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster
spilling on his head...
Rorie materializes from places unknown.
Edward chuckles. "Margarita anyone?" Seems some fresh strawberries just
appeared.
Aeia hopes this meetings settles down to more seriousness in relatively short
order; she has a lot to do.
Rorie grins.
Luhel agrees with Aeia
Shaival debates killing his brother outright.
Fletcher says, "Okay then.  Shh shh..."
Fletcher says, "Okay, we'll go through all the proposed agenda items, then ask
for any additional ones.  Sound fair?"
Evan nodz.
Bronwyn nods.  "SOunds good to me."
Rorie nods.
Saffron nods
D'thon is shushed.
Edward says, "Roberts Rules of Order." and nods."
Shaival nods.
Luhel nods
Fletcher says, "Can you explain those for us, Edward?  :)"
Fletcher points out we're missing someone from the Weyr.  :(
Evan points out that Kira is logging.
Bronwyn notes that Saria is online.
You say, "Saria's asleep, and D'thon and I can be the Weyr's rep."
Edward grins. "You don't know Fletcher? Typical Parliamentary procedure."
D'thon says to Kira, "Whoa!  Speak for yourself Weyr Wiz!  ;>"
Kira grins.
Edward chuckles. "Way to go Kira!"
Kira invites Y'sil in, since he's the most ranked Weyr member online.
You say, "who's not 2h idle. :)"
Evan blinks, "Y'sil?  Are you crazy???"  :>  (j/k)
Fletcher chuckles.  "Okay then.  First thing I wanted to talk about was tithe.
 I think Serauber's contacted all of the Crafts... Basically how it'll work is
the Riders will add items to a list, pass that list to Serauber.  Then he goes
and collects from the Holds and Halls and assembles it to be shipped off. 
We'll try to be fair so the Weyr doesn't ask for, say, five runners from the
Herders and a horde of neat items from the Smiths.  Any questions on tithe
stuff?"
Edward nods. "Serauber has not contacted all the crafts.
Bronwyn frowns as she notes that Serauber did not contact Weaver as far as she
knows.
Evan says, "There should be someone neutral to watch the tithes."
Seamus raises his hand.  "Nor the Harpers."
Evan says, "only basic items are tithed.  anything special has to be
commissioned and paied for."
Aeia says, "The Weyr sure as heck better NOT ask for runners, since they have
five they don't use, don't feed, and don't clean!"
Evan says, "He hasn't officially contancted us smiths.  no more than
mentioning that he wanted to."
Luhel hurray's Aiea
Y'sil materializes from places unknown.
Shaival whistles. Yikes.
Luhel wave Y'sil
Aeia hasn't heard from Serauber either.
Fletcher hmmms.  "Well, how do they get specialty items?  It's not like they
have cash marks to playw ith."
Y'sil peers in and wavies, "I had a flat tire..."
Rorie smiles. "He HAS talked to us farmers.
Kira says to Aeia, "I think they do want to cut back on runners, actually."
Evan says, "The weyr should provide some marks for them."
Evan says, "as the halls do for their denizens"
Y'sil blinks, "What's going on?"
Fletcher says, "Yes, but where does the Weyr get their marks?"
Bronwyn says, "we're discussing tithe.""
Kira says to Y'sil, "OOC Leader's meeting.  You're the Weyr's rep :)"
Evan says, "mabye something like 2 to 4 marks per  year.  from basic rider to
wingleaders..."
Saffron looks at Y'sil"taking about tithes
D'thon says to Y'sil, "Y'sil!  This ... is yourrrr ... LIFE!"
Luhel LOL
Y'sil nods, "As far as I knew, the Weyr had already paid for 7 runners, in
full.  Way back when Milsa was running things."
Edward shakes his head. "The Weyr does not pay people. The weyr gets a tithe
It is the Best and first of the crop/harvest whatever. Paying is OOC and
silly.
Y'sil says, "As for the tithe, that is our marks.  The Weyr flies
Thread...that's how we pay back.""
Evan hrrms, "Good point Fletch... the basic necessities are tithed... Riders
sell what they can craft?(must have had craft training for this)
Aeia says to Y'sil, "Five, which are not maintained and really should be
recycled."
Seamus smiles and lies back.  "I don't mind specialty requests, as long as
they understand that it'll take time.  The Weyr doesn't get marks, as far as I
know, so I don't have problems giving them things.  If they ask for a
Master-crafted xylaphone or something, they should understand it'll take a few
months."
Fletcher says, "Exctly, Ed."
Bronwyn notes that weavercraft has no problem accepting special commissions
from riders as tithe.
Evan notes to Edward that tithe from the crafts is only basic items.  anything
special, an elaborate beltknife for example, is not tithed out.  must be
commissioned/paied for.  discounted mabye, but not free.
Y'sil nods to Aeia, "Perhaps one or two just for use.  Personally, I haven't
seen anyone really use the runners.  Nuff even was talking about it."
Edward notes that if a Rider came in and said I want Foo. You give him Foo. No
questions. You do it.
Evan hrrms to Seamus, "THat's a posibility..."
Aeia says, "I don't mind special requests, either.  My people might bugger
about the loss of income, but they've got nothign to complain about, really. 
We can supply pets on demand as long as it's under a set limit each time."
Edward says, "Then you complain to the CM and the CM goes to the WL who says
so what. Lovely cycle heh."
Evan says, "ed... see the books."
You say, "Well, one thing I wanna note about that - riders do OOCly get marks
from the MOO.  so they should really pay for stuff too.  It isnt really IC,
true, but..."
Evan says, "When the Oldtimers came forward they were mad cuz that DIDN't
happen"
Y'sil tilts his head, "I do believe that a small amount of luxury items should
be allowed, but nothing excessive.  I can't imagine a rider coming in and
saying, I want 500 tons of Foo, and getting such.  :)"
Luhel hands the Rider present each a KC strip sirloin.
Fletcher nods to Y'sil.  "Exactly what I was thinking.  If a Craft has a
problem with the items requested, they can talk to me or the Weyr about it."
Bronwyn wonders how often tithe will be collected.
Evan nods to Y'sil, "Or wanting an item elaborate enough that the price would
go up by several marks for a plain item of the same type.
Edward nods. "I did Evan. And even then it did. It didn't on things crafted
for others."
Aeia nods to Evan.  "Exotic animals, in my case."
Fletcher says, "Every 6 IC months, so every 1.5 RL months."
Y'sil smiles and nods to Kira, "I think it'd add to rp.  A riders personal
effects /should/ be paid for on their own.  Maybe discounted.  But things that
would benefit the general weyr I think should be covered in the Weyr.  And
Evan, I do believe you're right...things that'd require extensive work should
be covered in some respect."
Bronwyn nods, satisfied.  "Seems reasonable."
D'thon says, "Well, I've been spending like a drunken sailor, preparing for a
big party coming soon.  ICly, I've said rather vaguely that I've recently come
into a large sum and since I'm a rider I don't need any so ... the party and
the mega-marks.  It also allows goosing the economy a wee bit."
Evan nods to Edward, "a basic item, sure.  not something elaborate."
Fletcher says, "Well then tithe seems relatively pointless to me.  What's a
rider going to request for tithe?  "Oh, a basic shirt.""
Evan nods to Y'sil, "thanks."
Y'sil grins at D'thon...love expendable income.
Luhel agrees Ecomomy good thing.
Evan nods to Fletch, "A belt knife is fine.  a beltknife set with jewls and
covered with etchings is not."
Seamus explains.  "I'll put a restriction upon requests from my own Hall, if
it doesn't sound too bad an idea.  As Evan noted, basic items are free. 
Specialty items should be cleared through one of the Masters of my Craft. 
There /should/ be an unwritten guideline that I'll follow.  Example, I won't
give every single rider that asks a Master-crafted instrument.  But, as a
gift, I could replace an instrument request with a Master-crafted instrument,
if that particular rider flew, led, sang, stomped, squished, fed, or otherwise
performed excellently.  That sounds rather fair."
Aeia has far too much money and is just looking for stuff to spend it on
herself.  She *will* be getting in touch with you, Bronwyn.
You say, "The basic tithe is still a good excuse for RP.  The hold has to send
herdbeasts to the Weyr, to feed the dragons, and other foodstuffs and supplies
for the weyr.  It should still be done."
Rarah says, " The riders do need their leathers.  and maybe a Gather Gown "
Bronwyn grins.  "They could ask for something basic and get it rather easily. 
However, asking for something a bit more elaborate, requiring an IC fitting,
is more fun and perhaps a bit of marks for the craft."
Shaival frowns mockingly at D'thon. I resent that. And will probably be
bugging bronwyn himself. I've marks and absoloutely *no* uise for 'em.
Evan is in the same situation as Aeia.
Edward says, "Evan, if Lord Fletcher wanted a knife and Ridder D'thon wanted
one. You'd be in your rights not to give it to D'thon. Because Lord Fletcher
commissioned it but general well made accoutremnets for general sale and some
of those are fancy would be tithed."
Bronwyn smiles at Aeia as she scrolls down.  Good.
Evan says, "Ed... my point is that something like that wouldn't be crafted
UNLESS by comission."
Rorie agrees with Kira and notes that it has brought lots of RP to her craft
already.
Evan nods to Kira, "I'm not disagreeing with that.  only that there should be
restrictions to what a rider can request for tithe."
D'thon says, "Oops!  Spending like some people *say* drunken sailors spend. 
Sailors are of course decent and honorable and never actually get drunk. ;>"
Edward says, "Chuckles. That bunk Evan. If I was a smithcrafter I'd make my
best stuff to sell not on commission.""
Fletcher says, "How about each Craft has its own happy limit.  Say a 20 marks
of extra stuff every tithe?"
Y'sil says, "I would tend to think that a special item like that (Evan) would
be comissioned by a rider at a reduced cost, but choice could be given to the
Lord, all things being equal.  The rider would just have to wait."
Edward says, "You make more that way."
Fletcher says, "Any more than that would have to be specially bought."
You say, "Individual riders prolly shouldnt request anything for tithe.  They
would realistically tell the Weyr's headwoman, who would put in a request, if
she thought it was warranted.  I'm not sure who Ista's headwoman is though..."
Fletcher nods top Kira.  "Aurelie."
Evan nods to Kira, "I like that."
Y'sil nods to Kira, "The requests should be centralized...unless the rider
needed it now.
Kira nods to Y'sil, "and if they did, they might just go directly to the
craft/hold and ask for it."
Evan shrugs to Ed, "Not, however, how my craft operates.  here or in the books
far as I can tell.  we don't gogue the public.  we make what is requested
nothing more."
Evan nods, "I'd agree with that, Kira."
Fletcher says, "The idea was that Serauber would gather the requests from the
Weyr- however they handle getting them, that's fine- then distribute them to
the Crafts an holds.  A package deal, not individually."
Bronwyn frowns.  "For many things a rider would want from weavercraft, I would
need to know who the rider was and to find out exactly what they wanted, rp
the fitting, etc."
Brian nods with Evan.. 
Y'sil says, "To Evan and Edward, "Think about it tho, I can't imagine a rider
realisticaly requesting a super garnished specialty item.  Perhaps the higher
ups for some presentation presteige, but not much more than that.  Nothing
extremely fancy."
Edward shrugs. "Lower caverns women can do a fitting for generl M/L/XL
clothes."
Evan nods to Y'sil, "I just want something put in incase it does happen, and
is unwarrented."
Edward shrugs. "Well, not my craft. Only thing I have is Dolphins and you
can't give them away."
Shaival hmms and would like to see someone ask for a ship. Again.
You say, "For tithe? :)"
Fletcher says, "Evan, if a problem arises, we can discuss it.  I agree that
Riders probably won't request extravagant things.  IF someone does, we'll deal
with it on a case-by-case basis.  Sound ok?"
Y'sil nods gravely to Edward, "I can't imagine dolphins being any other way. 
:)"  to Evan "Alright.  If the rider wants an extremely garnished specialty
item, he will have to pay for it, at reduced cost?  But as usual, preference
for any comissions at the time and the effort spent in making something would
be given to full paying customers.
Evan shrugs, "If we publish something to *ann or whatever, I'd like a 'within
reason'  added to the bit about Riders requesting for tithe
Edward winks. "Never know."
Y'sil grins at Evan.
Fletcher says, "I like Y'sil's idea.  At a reduced rate sort of thing."
Edward says, "Interesting to RP someone thinking they'd make a nice /pet/.""
Edward says, "Call a vote on the motion?"
Y'sil says, "I thought fifty knives, MasterCrafted and garnished with jewels
was within reason.   ;)"
Y'sil says, "Which motion?"
Evan nods, "No problem with the reduced rate either... individual s pecialty
items are a case-by-case basis
Evan baps Y'sil
Bronwyn notes that the whole point of tithe is to create rp.  Of course the
lower caverns women would be able to measure riders, but if someone from my
hall does it, that gives us an opportunity for rp.
In a caricature of Lacyene, the daemon wonders, real quick, if you're
interested in comments from the peanut gallery, maybe, o revered leaders?
Seamus smirks.  "Any requests will be taken, subject to availability and
limitations listed under article 264 of the Harper's Tale Code of Ethics..."
Fletcher says, "I'd prefer not, Lacyene.  Page your leader if you want to
comment."
Y'sil nods to Seamus, "That I'll vote on.  :)"
In a caricature of Lacyene, the daemon nods.
Shaival chuckles to Kira."I've been asked,'Can I have a ship'?' 30 times, no
less. Seacraft has nothing really to  give either except fish or whatever
goods that need to be transported. 
Oriana materializes from places unknown.
Kira hugs Oriana! Oriana grins, squishing Kira back mercilessly in a huge
harper-hug!
Seamus grins and waves a hello to Oriana.  "HI!"
Y'sil wavies to the newcomer.
Luhel waves Oriana
Edward says, "Why not a pleasure boat seamus? Small single sail craft?""
Evan hrrms to Shaival, "We need to get a delegation together to RP getting you
the stuff to build yoru ships.  :>"
Evan says, "heyla Oriana"
Brian says, "Transportation itself is a form of tithe, and opportunity for
RP.."
Fletcher says, "ANYWAYS, any more on tithe?"
Aeia gives Oriana a huge hug.
Oriana smiles brightly. "Hello, all. Don't let me interrupt." She takes a
seat, resting from her long journey to Hell.
Rorie smiles.
Edward nods. "Motion 1: Tithe shall be nothing of Master class?"
Shaival nods to Brian. "Yep. and would willingly do it whenever asked..and
wqould do cruises anytime people want to do it.
Evan's said his bit.
Y'sil sighs, "Uhm, just to be sure we're all up to speed and talking about the
same thing, and /single/ person want to ....yes, there we go, thanks Edward! 
:)
Fletcher nods to Edward.  "Sounds fair to me."
Bronwyn votes aye on motion 1.
Seamus grins.  "Nope.  Not from me."
Evan agrees w/ that Ed.
Luhel says, "Aye's"
Y'sil nods as well, "Which one means yes?"  "Yay"  "YAY!"
Rarah says, "What is it you want form the Healer craft?"
You say, "I dont think healers tithe anything.  Do they?"
Bronwyn hmms. "What about simple home remedies.  Teas for headaches, stuff
like that?"
Fletcher says, "Nope, Healers give ongoing tithe in the form of treating
dragonriders and Holders."
Aeia notes that 'Master class' is subject to interpretation for each Craft.
Y'sil says, "Wouldn't the healers do that on a as you need basis?""
Oriana says, "I should think that healers also tithe services. Healing
services. Exactly, Fletch."
Seamus grins and agrees with the first thingamajig.
Edward says, "Okay. Any Naysayers to Motion 1?"
Evan says, "I move to change Motion one to:  Tithe items be within reason, to
be determined as appropriate for each craft"
Fletcher says, "Same with Harpers.  How about Dolphins?"
Y'sil nods to Aeia, "In relative persepctive."
Oriana follows up on that, Aeia. "Sorry for coming in late, but by 'Master
Class', I assume you mean anything of a Master's manufacture?"
Edward nods. "Yes.
Y'sil says, "Or equivilent."
Oriana NODS.
Seamus thinks the Harpers have more to offer than simple ongoing services,
Fletch. :)
Oriana turns caps lock off. :)
D'thon says to Oriana, "Such a loud nod!  ;>"
Aeia says, "In my Craft, that would be the expense of the animal/service,
since we don't ICly craft anything."
Evan gets a healer for Oriana's neck
Edward says, "Which really does go against the 'First and the Best' tithe
rule. Weavers: Cloaks, etc should be made by a master. Good quality knives
made by a Master. So yes I second the change to wording of Motion 1."
Fletcher says, "Okay, Edward, sounds good."
Aeia notes to D'thon that Oriana has that Harper dramaticism.
Shaival says, "Would be kinda hard to restrict in Seacraft..I'll have to go
case by case."
Oriana grins. "The Harper services would also include legal counsel, teaching,
recording of various kinds, drafting, etc."
Evan says, "Ed?  when did 'First and the Best' go to Pern?"
Bronwyn would prefer to decide appropriateness based on what a rider would
need for everyday.  Weavercraft would certainly be happy to provide flying
leathers and work-type clothes for free, but gowns, nice gather suits, etc,
she would prefer be discounted, not 
free.
Y'sil says, "I'd also think that the occasional, not often, request of
something of higher than average quality be acceptable?"
Edward says, "Read DragonFlight. Clearly stated."
Evan raises a brow, "Not that I could see, Ed."
Evan nods to Y'sil, "To be determined on an item-by-item basis."
Oriana nods. "That's true - relating to Hold --> Weyr tithe.  Obviously,
tithed items or services would have to be of good quality. That, I believe, is
what the Lord Holder meant, Ed, when speaking with F'lar."
Y'sil nods to Evan.  :)  "I'd hope so.  Sure about that 50 knives?  ;)"
Seamus smiles at Y'sil.  "I still suggest that items of Master-craft be given
as a gift, in addition to tithe."
Evan nods to Oriana, "That they not be the dregs, yes.  that they be the cream
of the crop, not necessarially."
Brian says, "Gift.. is different than tithe..."
Bronwyn notes that the weavercraft doesn't allow items not of good quality to
be presented to the public, rider or not.
Edward grins. "It's there. Lytol's Tithe was the cream of the crop."
Y'sil suggests then using the words, "Rather good" instead?
Evan nods agreement to Br4ian
Fletcher says, "We'll tithe what we deem appropriate.  If the Smiths want to
tithe less, then the Riders can get down THEIR backs.  :)"
Evan says, "NOt impossible, just not _required_ Ed."
Evan grins to Fletch.
Y'sil smiles at Fletcher, "We can always avoid the Smith's area when doing
sweeps."
Oriana agrees. "I don't see any reason why a craft or hold can't deliver goods
or services of master quality in its tithe - the point is that they should not
be required.  Don't look a gift runner in the mouth, you know. :)"
Fletcher says, "I think we've talked this to death..."
Oriana grins to Aeia.
Fletcher says, "Right, Ori."
You say, "Uh Y'sil, the smith's area is inside the hold :)"
Saffron shrugs and says,"it make the hold look good to have the dragonriders
looking good..sort of prestigous, the dragonriders travel to other holds so if
they look good so do we:)
Evan nods to Oriana, "Exactly."
Seamus nods, "Gift is different than tithe.  Gift would be, I rather like X
rider.  X rider requests an instrument.  Instead of taking one "off the rank",
I personally make it for him/her."
Evan wasn't going to say that, Kira, but... :>
Aeia shares Ori's grin.
Y'sil grins at Kira, "all the more reason the other parts of the Hold would
bug them.  ;)"
Kira chuckles.
Kira says to Fletcher, "Whats next on the agenda?"
Evan says, "LOL, Y'sil..."  waits for Fletch."
Fletcher says, "Well, just general Hold/Hall/Weyr relation stuff.  I'd really
like to see more Riders come down to the Hold and Halls and RP with us.  It IS
a lot of fun when Riders come out.  Maybe it's not 110% IC, but we're going
for playability and FUN, too, right?  And I think it's fun to occasionally
organize a little group to talk a hike up to the Weyr..."
Rarah falls asleep.
Edward says, "Note Fletcher that Fall is quite often ICly. True, I'd love to
see some."
Evan nods to Fletch, 'I'd agree with that... I never bring my Rider alt on
anymore for loack of things to do.  a prolific RP base for riders coming down
to hall/hold would be great.
Shaival will hide formn those pes-er, friendly rriders.
D'thon irrigates ... er ... irritates Aeia.
Oriana grins. "I agree. Also, it's great fun to have a dragon in the courtyard
for Holders to react to."
Kira grins.
Y'sil peers at Aeia, "Perhaps during sweeps, we're allowed do drop down for a
'break' now and again?"
Edward has never seen a Rider sweep Dolphin Hall. But that is just me.
Seamus smiles.  "I like seeing riders in the Hold.  They're messing with /our/
rules then... ;)"
Shaival can see most of them running for the hills.
Evan says, "As long as a crafter's cat doesn't claw the dragon...  *grrr at
his late app*"
Bronwyn notes that she is trying to organize weaver training for interested
riders, even if it is not exactly IC.  If players have time oocly, I think
they should be allowed to do so.
Y'sil says, "You know, I was in the neighbourhood, decided to drop by, have a
couple of bottles of Benden.""
Fletcher says, "I think it'd be fun for the Smiths to march down to the docks
and get a shipment of metals from the SeaCraft.  For the Hold to receive
shipped supplies from other Holds or Halls..."
Oriana raises an eyebrow at Y'sil. "You don't chain your riders to their
dragons, do you? Of *course* they can take breaks. :)"
Y'sil says, "I've been thinking about it Oriana.  Some of these riders are
into wieeeeerd stuff.  Scares even me.""
Fletcher says, "True, Edward. Nor HerderHall.  That may be because of the
animals, but... I think the Herders would appreciate a visit every now and
then"
Evan nods to Fletch, "Love that."
Evan says, "I don't believe you, Y"sil.""
D'thon quietly hides his copy of Kama Sutra Airborne.
Y'sil says, "Of which part?  *grin*"
Bronwyn is also interested in inter-craft tps.
Kira grins at D'thon.
Aeia had her best RP recently when she was forced to do business with two
conceited, over-bearing...  er, upstanding riders.  *chuckle*  It was a great
little catfight.
Shaival smirks at Evan."believe him keed, believe him.
Evan grins to Y'sil, "Everything of course."
Y'sil says, "Seriously tho, I see nothing wrong with that...  (Airborne? 
Hmmm....)  drop by during sweeps and whatnot is a good enough reason.  :) 
Just need to encourage it."
Fletcher says, "Yeah, Bronwyn!  I think the Crafts should talk more, myself. 
:)  You know, just a general attitude.  Specifics are nice, but when you
encourage your staff to get out there and stir up things with other Crafters
and Holders..."
Y'sil sighs, "She was 18, I swea...er, nevermind."
Edward says, "Smamimals. Let them run a little good for them. Also, wouldn't
herders allow a hungry dragon to feed everynow and then?"
Fletcher says, "Exactly, Y'sil!  let your wingleaders know you want them to go
and leave the Weyr every now and then.  Having a wing land in the courtyard
would be great fun!"
Oriana crosses one leg over the other and swivels her bar stool slightly as
she speaks, gesticulating gently with her hands. "Now, speaking of getting
shipments and stuff like that, I've always been in favor of using everyday
chores as excuse for RP.  I've found the best excuses for getting and audience
with LHs, drinking myself schwoopsed in the bar, going for a swim
unexpectedly, all kinds of RP, just by doing normal things."
Fletcher grins to Oriana.  "Not a bad idea at all.."
Y'sil says, "I can pass it along, but it'll be up to the Wings to act on it. 
Alright?"
Saffron smiles at Oriana
A drudge arrives to cart Rarah off to bed.
Fletcher says, "Okay, Y'sil.  Thanks.  I think that's a big thing we need to
do as leaders- motivate our staff!  We can't do everything ourselves.  We
really need to whip our staff into action and get THEM involved!"
Aeia says, "Would I allow dragons to feed?  I dunno, I'd probably get pissed
about it, but that's just my char....  Speaking of which, what idiot is behind
the dragons-feasting-on-animals-that-aren't-theirs TP?"
Evan groans, "If we HAVE a staff..."  trying to even get one.
Oriana grins at the feisty Masterherder.
Fletcher hasn't heard of it, Aeia.  "Well, that's true, Evan...  Finding staff
these days seems to be problematic for the Crafts.  :("
Y'sil nods to Fletcher.  We can try.
Bronwyn nods sympathetically to Evan.
D'thon says, "hasn't 'herd' of it.  That's good."
Evan nods, "Bri doesn't want C2... and the others I'd love to see in the
position don't either.(which makes them perfect for it of course...   :>)
Edward nods. "Aye. I have Sr. Apprentices doing stuff that only a Jman or
higher would do but then again I am slow to promote."
Shaival likes feisty. Anbd doesn't know what staff *is*. half  my styaff has
disappeared before I even go thtis position.
Oriana says, "That's another thought, about Staff. Seems there's a perception
that craft staff doesn't actually *do* anything, that it's all the CM."
Brian says, "For smithcraft, 'staff' and 'leaders' have been the same as long
as I can remember.."
Fletcher hmmms to Oriana?
Aeia says, "The herdbeast thing has been in *tp or *announce, and just showed
up on *herder.  I'm ready to give the originator of the TP a good
dressing-down about asking a CM before destroying Craft property, but
anyway..."
Evan nods to Bri
Oriana says, "Well, for instance - while I was C2, I really didn't *do*
anything. It was only when I _made_ Lili take some of the load that we split
the work and the priviledges.  And even then, it was mostly just us."
Kira thinks you'd be well within your right to do so, Aeia. :)
Bronwyn if I had reliable staff, I'd be more than willing to give them some 
responsibility (as I am swamped right now.)  (Also notes that she disregards
retired weaver staff from the previous statement.)
Oriana says, "Also, we had a Steward for a while, who didn't do anything
either. I tried to give her responsibilities, but she never did them."
Edward says, "I've outlined on *tp things about DH and intercraft/hold tp's.
Suggestions are always welcome. I even have ideas ffor the other crafts. The
question is getting people to RP them not the ideas.""
Aeia tries to delegate everyting to her future successor, but the majority of
her staff is not active, alas.
Bronwyn grins.  "I've sent off several mails about intercraft tps and am now
getting some responses."
Shaival luckily has one staff member he can count on to help. And an
apprentice who I may just promote because she's so darned dedicatyed.
Luhel wakes up.
Fletcher nods to Edward and Oriana.  "That's true...  I've somehow manages to
shlep all sorts of stuff off on my staff.  :)  I think you just have to get
people who will create things for their position to do and don't expect their
position to create things for them to do.  Make sense?"
Luhel shoots his providor.
Aeia says to Oriana, "you noticed."
Fletcher nods to Ori!  "Agh, that really grates on me.  No idea why people do
that.  They don't want the responsibility here, but they go elsewhere to get
it.  :("
Edward nods. "Yes. It happens all the time. No one wants to be delegated but
they all want to lead."
Shaival smirks."Then abandon it when they find out..it's *hard*. I was
relunctant to accept this cause I knew it wouldn't be easy.
Oriana nods to Fletcher. "Exactly. The impression I get from that is that
people want ultimate, not just partial, power.  Yet, partial power is a lot
easier."
Fletcher really prefers the reverse for himself.  "Being In Charge sucks.  :)"
Fletcher says, "Exactly, Oriana!"
Y'sil nods to Edward, "They just want someone to blame for their problems. 
;)"
Evan nodz to Edward, "Why do you think my char is the way he is."
Oriana grins. "And people wonder why I ain't here much anymore... " ;)
Brian chuckles, Leading is never as easy as it looks form below..
Fletcher says, "Anyways, this isn't a flame or gripe session.  Anyone have
something constructive to contribute to the issue of Hold/Hall/Weyr
relations?"
Evan NODS to Brian, "Tell me about it."
Aeia agrees with Fletcher, which is why she's looking forward to retirement. 
Two years as CM....
Seamus smiles.  "Personal philosophy re: staff.  I don't think rank is the
issue.  I've been thinking ( scary, no? ), and I've almost come to the
decision that I'll be adding staff from various ranks.  Primarily, I'm looking
for activity.  Not on-line activity.  Motivation.  I've already found 3
Apprentices who would do nicely; just need to watch a little further.  Why not
promote them?  Because, they haven't proven themselves to the Craft, though
they've demonstrated organizational ability."
Luhel notes Aiea has some very good craftmembers.
Rarah materializes from places unknown.
Evan says, "Just encourage people to get out and RP inter-craft stuff."
Evan wishes he has more than 1 or 2 J-people
Oriana says, "Now, Hold/Hall relations - with the Harpercraft, that ought to
be easy now that you're LH, Fletch. :) I'd love to see the Hold actually
employing crafters - with marks or priviledges as incentive.  Not just the
CM's, either."
Edward nods. "I'd like to see the beach used more. I'v eposted Life guards."
Bronwyn would love to send crafters on a rotating basis to the weyr to take
comms as we don't currently have a weyrweaver.
Oriana grins at Seamus... "And here I thought I was breaking the rules when I
added JM to the Harper staff for the first time."
Shaival is going to poke his apprentices into bugg-er visiting the dolphin
hall.:P
Evan agrees with that, "I seem to be doing everything, cuz no one else wants
to.  'm trying to change that, but..."
Fletcher nods to Oriana.  "I've got Myrna as my Scribe and I'd love to have
more Harpers or OTHER CRAFTS  with Hold positions."
Edward grins. "Sure Shaival."
Bronwyn rms posted to the weyr, that is.
Oriana says, "Bronwyn, that's a great idea. Travelling salesmen!"
Shaival would post someone to the Weyr, but isn't sure whether it's done. I
forgot who suggested it.
Evan says, "I would fletch, but all I've to offer are Apps, which I won't do. 
after they make J-man then I'd love to do it."
Fletcher says, "Really, Evan?  Okay..."
Oriana grins... "I think the Harpercraft could offer Sales Training Courses,
don't you think so, Seamus?"
Seamus chuckles toward Oriana.  "Change is good, no?"  Then turns to Fletcher,
"I've also been pondering Hold / Harper relations.  A Harper who's employed to
perform at the Mug?  The Weyr should be taken care of in a week, when we've
discussed the posing of the WeyrHarper and company.  Grinstead, I hope, will
get their own compliment of Harpers.  I'd /love/ to see a couple a Blacksands,
too."
Fletcher says, "Posting Crafters is always a good thing, but if they strewn
too far out, then you can't have intra-Craft RP.  I think it best to
consolidate your own Craft before sending CRafters out..."
Bronwyn sighs as she notes that weavercraft has plenty of commissions and
prospective tps, but not enough active members.
Seamus says, "Sales!  Yes!  Swindlers! :)"
Edward nods. "Blacksands will get a dolphineer. Grinstead never. A few at
Paradise. The weyr has always been iffy."
Brian nods to Fletch.. Smithcraft got a _nasty_ lesson in stretching out too
thin back before the Ista Island consolidation..
Oriana says, "Mostly, Fletcher, what's needed is a good communication network
between craftmembers as well as enough nearby people, not necessarily
crafters, with which to RP."
Bronwyn nods to Fletch.  "That's why I'd like to do it on a temp, rotating
basis.  Post them there for a week RL and then back to the hall."
Shaival's craft is *so* consolidated it's condensed. Shouldn't the Weyr have a
dopphineer?(thopught they did at one point)
Aeia will allow Herders to visit places, but no permanent postings until our
activity goes up.
Fletcher says, "So did the Harpers, Brian."
Fletcher says, "Good idea, Bronwyn!"
Oriana says, "I really like Bronwyn's idea of the rotating posts.  Have more
Route Harpers, for instance, instead of postings."
Luhel wakes up.
Bronwyn smiles.  "It seems like a good solution to the
riders-stuck-in-the-weyr syndrome.  I get very few riders for rp at the hall."
Edward nods. "I'd like to see Harpers deliver the information!" Thats really
IC.
Fletcher says, "Yepyep.  Okay, then...  Good ideas tossed around...  Can we go
on to Shops?"
Fletcher says, "YEAH!  I'd love to see Harpers spreading more unsubstantiated
rumors!"
Aeia laughs.
Oriana turns to the riders. "Maybe the Watchrider posts could be rotated, too?
 Or, have one permanent, with rotating assistants, to have more interaction?"
Oriana winks at Fletcher. "You know that's what we do best."
Fletcher says, "The WatchRider post is rather sick ATM.  :|"
Seamus smirks.  "I think that's easily arranged. ;)"
Bronwyn likes the idea of shops.  "Since we can't have permanent gather tents,
I've amde arrangements with Gabi to display some weaver items on consignment
inher shop."
Y'sil ponders to Oriana, "At this point, I hardly know many riders at all
who're up for WR position...  I could see the rotation part, done on what sort
of basis tho?  Sevenday?  Monthly?
Fletcher says, "Exactly, Bronwyn!  Use Gabrielle as kinda a middle man.  She
buys from the other Crafts then sells to people..."
Bronwyn says, "And, she can send special comms to the hall."
Oriana says, "Probably RL week - IC monthly.  That's enough time for people -
even those who aren't too active - to log in a few times and go to the various
Holds for a visit."
Evan nods, "I've been trying to use Gabi for a long while now."
Saffron laughs at Evan's words
Y'sil hrms..."I'd prefer at least bi-weekly...seeing the activity level of
some of the riders and how long it takes for any of them to move about or know
they're supposed to be somewhere.
Fletcher says, "Good, Evan.  I'd like to see thr production crafts use her
shop or their own shops.  Smiths, Weavers especially."
Bronwyn wonders how much business she actally gets though, since none of our
consignment items have sold yet.
The daemon speaks in Leanna's voice, "look"
Fletcher says, "I think she needs to advetise more.  OR, if you're not happy
with her, set up your own shop!  I have a few Holders I could convince to run
a shop for the Weavers and/or Smiths."
Seamus grins.  "Advertise..."
The daemon speaks in Leanna's voice, "grin"
Edward nods. "Drumheights? ALl the master's would know drum messages."
Oriana nods to Fletcher and Bronwyn. "That brings to mind something else -
I've heard some people reacting to the idea of shops with the idea that the
shop will be taking business *away* from the crafts. What they didn't seem to
realize is that the shopkeeper has to buy from the craft in question in order
to sell the items."
Bronwyn hmms.  "Don't know if we're able to run our own shop, yet, but amybe
in the future."
Fletcher says, "Precisely, Oriana."
Edward nods. "Yep."
Oriana grins at Seamus. "The Harpercraft Advertising Service?"
Fletcher says, "Maybe if I got someone to run it for you, Bronwyn?"
Aeia isn't sure how the shops are going to work with her people.
Seamus grins at Oriana.  "Perhaps.  In addtion to actual signs / posters, then
people will know it exists.  I mean, walking by, Hold Shops looks rather minor
compared to Flying Mug or Harper Hall..."
Fletcher says, "Cimorene and Mateo were getting a pet supply shop which I
think would work fine..."
Bronwyn sighs.  "Maybe.  It's a difficult thing, though, bec. most items
weaver makes for display are objects, as opposed to just descs for comms.  I'm
backlogged with comms right now, and can't even think of doing extra ones for
display in a weaver shop."
Aeia shrugs.  "The supplies would have to be mostly RPed items, not actual
objects."
Edward chuckles. "Neon signs now?"
Oriana nods. "And, if you, Aeia, were to sell them a batch of kittens,
perhaps, they could even handle the pets as well. Obviously, the Herdercraft
would continue to own and control the parents. But what's the difference
between a j'man selling a pet and a shop selling a pet?"
Y'sil wows...Las Ista...
Seamus chuckles at Edward.  "If the Smiths could make it, why not? ;)"
Fletcher nods to Aeia.  "Right, because anyone can breed pets with the current
code."
Aeia says, "True, true..."
Y'sil sighs, "Neon=ANSI?  It'd make things stand out."
Evan says, "hate to put this in but I've gotta go."
Seamus waves to Evan.
Fletcher says, "Well, something to think about...  Okay, on to Gather.  I was
REALLY happy with the last Gather and think it went splendidly except for ONE
thing.  NO Istan Riders showed up."
Rorie waves to Evan.
Oriana waves to Evan, sadly.
Saffron waves to Evan
Shaival says, "I think M'hael did. "
Y'sil says, "When was the gather?"
Seamus says, "M'hael, Oph, and D'rik did."
Y'sil feels sooooo impressive saying that.
Shaival says, "A couple others put in brief apperances."
Edward says, "Ansi? I rather not really."
Evan goes home.
In a caricature of Serauber, the daemon's face mystically appears on the
daemon.
Rarah says, " B'ran and Kath came too."
Oriana grins. "No ANSI until we, the Pernese, develop Neon. ;)"
Bronwyn *loved* the gather, even though she got there somewhat late.  "I think
it's a wonderful way to publicize the crafts and really get some good rp
started."
Fletcher says, "I think it would have been great to have like a wing doing
some sort of aerial stunts... They did?  Ahhh, yes, but nothing organized.  I
really think it would have been neat for the dragons to do some kind of
performance which would dazzle and awe the Holders."
You say, "The Istan Air Show. ;)"
Y'sil smiles at Fletcher..."Put in a request...see if the Blue Angels (puffs
up chest* can do something.
Seamus chuckles.
Rorie grins.
Saffron laughs
In a caricature of Serauber, the daemon's face disappears from the daemon.
Brian groans...
Bronwyn whines.  "Can we have another gather soon?"
Fletcher says, "yeah!  Or whatever...  I'd like that, Y'sil.  Just a bit
disappointed you guys didn't organize something on your own.  Maybe we'll work
on that for the Turnover Gather?"
Aeia chuckles.  "I wish I could have been there...  I keep getting busy on the
wrong weekends."
Y'sil says, "Alright...get in touch with me outside of this..and will see what
can be done."
Oriana recalls when the Telgar Weyr did an air show for the Telgar Hold
Gather. It was really spectacular. It really topped off the evening.
Kira imagines the smiths making smoke canisters so the dragons can do smoke
trails.  heehee.
Seamus hopes Fletcher doesn't schedule Gathers to often, though. :)
Rarah  giggles at the Blue Angels
Rorie wishes she could have been there too..
Fletcher says, "Actually, Brownyn, no.  :)  I've decided the reason this
Gather worked so well is that there hadn't been one for a LONG time.  Regular
Gathers- like weekly or even monthly- are too close together.  I want to make
Gathers BIG HUGE events that everyone and their cousin wants to come to."
Brian chuckles, We can make smoke...
Shaival laughs."Tie them to the tails..
Bronwyn pouts.
Seamus hi6s Fletcher.
Y'sil chuckles and shakes his head, "Oh my.
Oriana grins.. "And attach a lever to the canister so the rider can release
the smoke on command, and do some skywriting. :)"
Kira grins.
Seamus says, "Sky-advertising!!!!! :) :P"
Fletcher shakes his head, wondering where he lost control and then wondering
if he ever really had it.
Shaival would like to see that one.
Oriana hi7's Seamus!
Fletcher smacks Seamus.  :)
Kira says to Fletcher, "Sorry :)"
Shaival lays off the sugar now.
Kira says to Seamus, "Hey you could just make banners and pay a rider to tow
it around the Hold area for you. ;)"
Bronwyn says, "Anything else about gathers?"
Fletcher says, "Okay, right, the dragons doing something Aerial.  Have Evan's
people talk to your people, Y'sil, for the smoke.  :)  Hey, whatever happened
to Threadfall?  That was great fun, I thought!"
Oriana never had any sugar. Isn't *that* a scarey thought? :)  Go ahead,
Fletcher.
Kira has been wondering about threadfalls.  
Seamus wonders if smacking is a display of affection.  "Good idea, Kira. :) 
Hm.  Let's exploit this..."
Y'sil has been too.
Y'sil says, "Hardly anyone shows up for them, when there were some...  :/ 
Need to find a better system."
Seamus has a suggestion...
Fletcher says, "Really, Y'sil?  The one Fall I watche don the camera was just
AWESOME.  Stirring, ya know?  Do tell, Seamus."
Y'sil is listening..  ;)
Shaival says, "Why not traion nonriders to run the thread?"
You feel the warmth of Torkain's embrace as he hugs you with affection.
Edward nods. "Why not. I'll train anyone who comes to me."
Oriana says, "Edward did train a number of people to run Thread. Somehow, it
just stopped."
Y'sil says, "Non-riders have been trained...  Anyone really who wants to
learn.  Ask Edward over there.  :)"
Seamus says, "@emit.  NPC dragons.  Players who want to know what being a
rider is all about can give it a "trial" period."
Bronwyn would prefer if fall was nearly always rped over populated places so
that the holders could rp fall too, as in the second harper Hall book (forget
title, right now.)
Fletcher blinks to Seamus.  "WOW!  I like that!"
Edward shrugs. "Falls are tough to get /just/ right so I'll train whoever
wants it."
Oriana says, "Dragonsinger. Yes - and does that Klaxon of yours work,
Fletcher?"
Fletcher says, "The NPC part..."
Fletcher says, "It used to...  I think it still might."
Fletcher says, "What do you think, Y'sil?  Allow people who're thinking of
being Riders log on as an NPC and fly Thread once or twice?"
Bronwyn grins.  "we can run around closing shutters and then huddle in the mug
with some benden."
Fletcher grins to Bronwyn!  "Yeah!"
Kira thinks that's something that needs to be approved by the Weyr's own
leadership internally, not something that can be decided right here.
Shaival says, "Dragonsong, no? *is interested in running a fall if riders will
show.(and I don't have those oddball 1 am times online, eihter.:P)"
D'thon says to Bronwyn, "Or you could bend in the muddle with some hugs."
Bronwyn errrs.
Y'sil hmmms and ponders on that one, "I'm not sure if I can truly speak for
the whole Weyr on that one.  However, it would cause a serious amount of
excess psammage and there would be serious complaints from riders about NPCs
and such...I'd suggest just watching right now...
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "But I don't think they've ever thought of it
before..."
D'thon shrugs.  "Or not."
Fletcher hmmms.  "Well, so the problem is getting enough Riders on-line to RP
Fall?"
Edward shrugs.
Edward says, "Always has been Fletcher.""
Edward really wants to automate it.
You say, "we have 58 dragons on HT.  If 5 of them can't make a fall, there's a
problem somewhere."
Edward is almost there with that only need time. ;>
Oriana says, "Automate the Threadfall, or automate riders coming to meet it?"
Y'sil says, "As for fall, I'm perfectly willing to have Fall over
everywhere...well, (I?  Er, the riders are) perfectly willing to go through
with it, I suppose, but I think we need someone to run it more regularly at a
time when EVERYONE can make it..."
Fletcher says, "Well, for those Riders it could be fun.  I agree, Kira.  Maybe
make Fall less regular.  Maybe once a week?  Once every other week?  Make it a
BIG EVENT, not just something to do in your spare time."
Shaival says, "They aqre mainly Impressed to npcs or  people who stay in their
weyrsd after impression."
Edward says, "Nope. Automate fall. Let the riders trigger it."
You say, "But, again.  This needs to be talked about at the Weyr.  I think
from the leaders perspective, its more important to just have the falls."
Y'sil says, "Ever week never worked...one problem had always been a time when
everyone could make it."
Oriana says, "I think that the once-a-week Fall worked relatively well, but
then, it means that a pretty steady group of riders were the only ones that
could make it. However, speaking for myself, I can never remember the time
when it isn't a steady one from week to week."
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "Exactly.  Maybe the Weyr leader types should get
together on it.  I just know Fall used to be great RP when we had it.  And I
kinda like Edward's idea to automate the fall.  Then you wouldn't need to
organize times with the person running it so muhc."
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon's face mystically appears on the daemon.
In a caricature of Lacyene, the daemon squeaks out -real- quick: Edward, kind
sir, please can you un-hide?
Oriana says, "But now, there are a number of people trained -- Hi, B'ran -- to
run threadfall. Perhaps each of them could take a particular time, to spread
it out more for the various riders?"
You say, "I dont really like the idea of a fall just happening.  if there's no
wing in the air, it'd be a problem."
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon nods to all.
Kira waves to B'ran.
Edward waves to B'ran.
Y'sil waves to B'ran and nods to Kira, "Or jus one rider...  Been there..."
Fletcher says, "No, of course not, Kira.  The WL would see some Riders on, ask
'em on channel, "Hey, wanna have a Fall?"  Announce it to the MOO with maybe
20 minutes of warning, then start it."
Saffron nods to B'ran
Edward says, "Happy Lacy ;>"
Seamus says, "The way I see it, there're /lots/ of riders who'd /love/ to fly
Thread.  The problem is the scheduling.  I know it's more IC for folk to know
when Thread fals, but ... how about this.  When a mass of riders (5?) are
on-line, together, then they can choose to ask one of the Threadcontrollers to
start dropping it."
Oriana says, "Perhaps an automated Fall wouldn't have 'real' Thread. It would
just ring the klaxon and inform any online Riders that Fall was starting."
Fletcher hi5's Seamus!
Seamus nods to Fletcher, grumbling.  "Read-minder. ;)"
Edward says, "Thing is Shaival there are only 7 thread controllers."
Fletcher hee hees.
Shaival is willing to become one.
Y'sil hmmms, "The semi-spontaneous fall would work, but it's a matter of
having enough of everyone to do it.  Like gc as well...
Fletcher says, "Well, that's just it, Y'sil.  You asked people if they wanna
fly Fall.  If yes, do it.  If no, no worries.  You'll get 'em another time."
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon is always thre, but it is rare that
others show up.
Brian says, "If there is some warning, ground crews can assemble relatively
quickly.. assuming we can get people out of their rooms to staff a thrower.."
Oriana says, "That way, any riders who were online could go and meet Fall, and
if a Thread Controller's online too, so much the better.  I like the
spontaneous Fall idea - problem with that is to make sure people know they can
do that kind of thing."
Fletcher says, "Right, Brian."
Seamus smiles.  "GC can be @emitted as well, though there'd need to be a
method of wiping thread in case there's no 'throwers available.  That's a far
too common problem."
Fletcher says, "Okay, Bronwyn needs to go soon so we have to talk about Craft
Organization if we can table this for later?"
Oriana agrees. "The dragons can get rid of thread on the ground, though. If
anyone bothers to land."
Oriana agrees, putting the subject in her glass for later discussion.
Seamus says, "I thought there was a little problem with that?  D'thon?"
Y'sil nods, "Providing any Thread that falls can be taken care off,
spontaneous comb--fall, doesn't seem a problem...we'd need a list easily
accessable to see who can throw thread tho.
Edward says, "The problem is 'People don't want to RP it'"
You say, "All the crafts, and the hold, should have a supply of flamethrowers.
 talk to the smiths :)"
Seamus drops the Thread idea for now.
Fletcher says, "Okay, Craft Organization..."
Brian says, "There are 20 or 21 throwers around the MOO..   Craft
Organization.. ?"
Bronwyn grins and trains her attention on Fletcher.
Edward says, "Crafts are autonomous.""
Aeia says, "We have three throwers and every Herder can get them out.  Only
certified ones can unsafe them, but anyone who asks can be added to that
list."
Kira considers also adding the ability for firelizards to flame thread on the
ground/in a ground room.  that could be fun and useful.
Aeia nodnods!  That would be great fun.
Edward nods. "I have the code to do that on me now Kira. :)"
Oriana says, "Yes, that's true, Edward, but it's always good to see how each
craft does things and get suggestions. What did you have in mind on the
subject, Fletcher?"
Fletcher defines the stages of the Craft:  Main Crafthall- has the CM there. 
Crafthall - like the Harpers, a Hall with a Master or something in charge. 
Posted Crafters - A Master or Journeyman who has been posted to the Hold and
hired by the LH to perform services.  Can take on maybe 3 Apprentices and a
Journeyman.  Hold Craft - A non-world-wide grouping of people that's totally
under the direction of the Hold."
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon thinks you would have a lot more interest
in threadfall if you opened up the firelizards to flame thread.
Bronwyn nods.  "Yes, that sounds right.  What's to discuss?"
Oriana sees nothing wrong with that, Fletcher.
Shaival says, "They should be able to..it's percect"
Shaival says, "Perfectly ic, anyuways.:P"
Fletcher says, "In my mind, this needs to be discussed for some of the
smaller/nonexistent Crafts.  Most notably the Weavers since they always seem
to have bordered on extinction...  How many active Weavers are there,
Bronwyn?"
With an intense look of concentration, D'thon's eyes unfocus as he wanders off
to think about verbs.
Bronwyn hmms. "Currently there are 8 active weavers, including our three new
apps.  ICLy, Ista is not the main crafthall."
[*wizard] Kira: you fixing the demon?
Fletcher says, "Right.  But how many Weavers like ARE there.  8 Active?"
Edward shrugs. "Ista is not the main crafthall for any craft."
Bronwyn oops, minus the weaver builder.  There are a few more unactive
weavers, too."
Fletcher says, "yes it is, Edward.  Everyone except Harpers and Weavers have
their main Hall here.  Considering active is 3 hours/week, you have 3 active
Weavers:  You, Yashu, and Jinesa."
Brian pokes in his $.02... Whether it agrees 100% with the books or not..
Smithcraft has it's Main crafthall right here on Ista.
Bronwyn says, "PLUS several active associates at teh weyr."
Edward says, "No. ICLY Ista has NO Main Craft Hall here.""
Fletcher says, "Okay.  But I mean like actually the Craft.  :)  So I got to
thinking that I think you guys would work better as posted Crafters (and it'd
be more IC) thank you have that big Hall which you rattle around in."
Bronwyn points out that Annest has been on vacation for the past week.
Edward says, "Okay, according to the books."
Aeia says, "Ista is the main crafthall for the Herders right now, because I am
there."
Fletcher says, "Evan has the title MasterSmith of Pern.  That's the main
CraftHall.  Talmer MasterHealer of Pern.  Aeia MasterHerder of Pern."
The daemon speaks in B'ran's voice, "Hey. We associates /are/ in the craft. We
do everything they do, just aren't knotted as weavers."
Bronwyn says, "We are currently planning to redesign our hall to make it
smaller.  We really don't need all that space.  But, I don't know about the
posted crafters bit.""
Oriana says, "Now, Aeia, when you eventually retire, however, you'll keep the
title of Masterherder and your successor will simply be a Master, correct?"
Seamus thinks changing the Weavers to a Posted Crafter position would be
taking a step back, in the long run.
Fletcher says, "I think that instead of the Weavers always seeming to be about
to go kaput, they could be strong as posted crafters.  You'd have a lot more
Hold support instead of existing as THAT much of a separate entity.  There'd
be more people AROUND you if you were posted, I think.  You wouldn't
constantly need to be looking for new recruits."
The daemon speaks in B'ran's voice, "And we are jjust now building back from a
catastrophe. One of our previous leaders practically wiped out our membership
with her ineptness."
Bronwyn has plans to revitalize weaver activity at the weyr, focusing on hte
current batch of associates and recruiting.
Fletcher says, "How so, Seamus?"
Seamus shrugs and sits up upon the ceiling to regard Fletcher before taking a
deep breath...
Aeia nods to Oriana.  "When I go, my successor will just be the Istan Herder
Master, and I'll retain my title as an NPC, probably on Keroon."
Oriana says, "Now, regarding the idea of various crafts acting as Posted
Crafters instead of a crafthall installation.  Personally, I don't see that
there'd be any change in the craft's organization - just a change in titling
for the leaders and perhaps a change of geographical location to closer into
the main living areas."
Bronwyn says, "we need new recruits in any case to replace old ones as the
become inactive.  As I said, we have plenty of comms and tps, but not the
active players to run them.  I think there is a conception of the weavercraft
as inactive on this moo and therefore"
players are unwilling to apprentice with us, but that's not for lack of things
to do as a weaver."
Edward chuckles. "Dolphin Hall is not moving. Bronwyn, perhaps postings. Hrm
what about a monthly, bi monthly *ann post about crafts. People tend not to
read the help.
Oriana nods to Bronwyn. "I think that's certainly the case. There's been a
'Weavercraft? What Weavercraft?' feeling around here for a long time."
Fletcher nods to Oriana.  "There'd then be one person very certainly In
Charge.  When I had Carsi in the Weavers, it was pretty confusing.  And there
was nothing to DO inside the Craft other than commissions.  If you were posted
and Apprentices were your mentees, I think there'd be more
incentive/opportunity to like teach them one-on-one Bronwyn.  Right, the
conception of Weavers being inactive is no good at all.  I think that
consolidating into being posted would help."
Fletcher nods to Oriana.  "The Weavers have been nearly extinct since *I*
joined HT."
Seamus says, "By changing the Weavers to a Posted Crafter position, you're
actually taking a step backwards.  They're a little inactive currently, but,
by changing their type of Craft, folk could misconstrue that as something
meaning a limitation upon the number of Crafters within the Weavers.  By
merely "down-sizing" and then allowing them to retain their current position,
there's always room for expansion.  However, also by keeping them as actually
Crafters in a Craft Hall, they'd be able to expand however they saw fit when
more Weavers actually started joining the Craft itself.  Personally, I think
they're just in a winter phase, where the craft is rather slow.  Come school
time, activity should pick up."
Kira has something to say about all the crafts in general.
Fletcher nods to Kira.
Bronwyn notes that we do currently have a mentor-mentee system because it
seems to encourage more activity and rp.
Luhel has purchased from weavers in past and will continue in future, htey
need to make clothes that wear out, and have to be replaced.
Oriana agrees with Seamus, and listens to Kira.
Edward waits for Kira.
Rorie smiles. "Bye all Rl calles.
Rorie goes home.
Bronwyn also notes that as she has said before here, weavercraft is planning a
number of tps outside of the craft, including a major part in building
blacksands.
D'thon wanders back into the room, after having considered verbs for a time.
You say, "What I'd like to see is some clearly listed guidelines about each
craft.  What does the craft do?  What can I (as a newbie) do in the craft? 
Whats fun about it?  And, also importantly - a documented path for promotion,
so that crafters know exactly what sorts of things they need to do to move up
from apprentice to j-man to master."
You say, "Perhaps its just my own personal preference, but I really do think
that we, all of us as leaders, need to sell players on our area, if we want
them to join."
Fletcher NODS!
Bronwyn smiles.  "I just edited some of the promotion stuff for the craft. 
When I took over, I saw that as a very important thing.
Edward nods. "Already done. Now someone else is doing the help for
DolphinCraft now."
Oriana agrees wholeheartedly. "It's been easy for us Harpers to get lazy about
that, since we've got such great free publicity in the books.  But even so, if
we don't have those things - especially a documented path for promotion -
people get bored and leave."
Seamus smiles.  "The Harpers have that under "view policy on #1987" and "view
guidelines on #1987".  The "help harper hall" glosses over it, though I'm
thinking of a way to incorporate both of the previously mentioned into the
help in a lesser capacity."
Fletcher nods to Oriana.  "About three Harpers have paged me about positions
in the Hold lately."
You say, "It'd be good if all the areas had their own help files, you know you
can create a child of the $help_db and have it accessible to your crafters."
Brian nods, A documented promotion scheme solves 'You promoted them but I
deserve it more' issues.
Fletcher says, "Really, Kira?  Hey, neat!"
Oriana grins. "That's the back side of a documented promotion path, Fletcher.
They don't want to work for it, and get tired of just waiting."
Edward suggests a Book instead!
Edward says, "There are reasons a book is better but its up to you all."
Kira says to Edward, "well, help db's are more easily accessible, and
modifiable."
Fletcher halts.  "Err, really, Edward?  But help is so much easier."
Aeia notes to Kira that she already has guidelines online.
Kira would prefer a help db, than a book.
Oriana says, "Why, Edward? Aren't the help db's on disk too?"
Edward nods. "Yes. They are."
Fletcher bouncies.  "Neat.  I never knew you could do that..."
Bronwyn notes that the weaver guidelines are easily attainable and promote rp
and are online currently.
Seamus says, "Of course, there'll be discussions starting today regarding
Craft policy.  Any changes will be written down on the board and into the
help.  I've also entertained the thought of just having information packets
directly mailed to a character, though I'm not sure how good that idea sounds
right now."
Edward nodsd. "Well, don't anyone do it till I've tested something! This is
pretty important.
D'thon steps away for a moment to scrawl out a message to someone.
Fletcher okays to Edward.
Oriana says, "Of course, a book is more IC. But in that case, the book is a
physical object that needs to be found by wandering.  Harder to do that way. 
Also, if it's an IC object, then you can't put OOC stuff in it, really."
You say, "It sounds like most of yall already have some docu in various
places, but I'll admit I dont know how to access it, and I feel like I
should."
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "Interesting point."
Edward nods. "Good. Fletcher, I'll RP with Brownyn, Let the weavers figure it
out for themselves."
Bronwyn sorries.  "OUr guideline are on the weaver feature object."
Fletcher thinks the helps would be a lot better.
Fletcher says, "I was just projecting an alternative which I thought would be
better for the Weavers.  Or at least present them with the option."
Shaival says, "Seacraft's is also on the Fo..you can add it if you like,
Kira."
Brian says, "And our advancement doc's are currently on the smithcrafter
parent.."
Edward nods. "Helps would be. Sounds fine. Unfortunately, the help verb would
nee to change to only allow access to those of a craft. It'll be better than
wide open.
Fletcher wants to talk about Hunters next.
Luhel thinks help should tell where to get craft info and which book to read,
for us illiterates,
Luhel nods
Rarah says, " Ours is in the Healer Notebook..  Which all Healers get once
they make Apprentice."
Aeia says, "My promotion guidelines are all in a Web document all new Herders
read."
You say, "I'd really prefer the paths to promotion to be public info, open to
all."
Fletcher says, "Did they ever fix the format, Rarah?  That promotion chapter
looked really confusing."
You say, "Also I'd suggest that everyone please update the ICnews for their
area."
You say, "on a regular basis, and also the help document for your area."
Bronwyn nods to kira.  "i've been thinking about tath.  I've been a little
swamped lately, but will get to it. ;)
Aeia will find that help document and update it.  As for the web document, it
is publicly available.  I have as many pointers to it on the website as
possible.
Fletcher says, "How do we update ICnews?"
Seamus says, "@notedit #114.harper_hall."
You say, "yes, and then 'touch #114' when finished."
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon notes the promotion guidelines for weaver
are readily accessible as well.
Oriana says, "Would it be possible to make an '@updateicnews' type verb for
those of us who can never remember it?"
Rarah says, " I am not sure .. Yopu would have to reread it agian to see if it
is the same."
Shaival says, "I'm trying to get a Seacraft webpage set up so that it will be
publically available. Unfortunately, I am totally new at webpages."
Oriana offers Webpage advice whenever you like, Shaival.
Edward nods. "Okay. But there are somethings that aren't related to promotions
that are still only for the craft.
There is new Ista Hold news.  Type 'news Ista Hold' to read it.
You say, "its erased every week, anything older than a week in ICnews gets
cleared."
Shaival nods to Oriana.
No report.
Seamus grins at Oriana.  "I'll need it after I get settled."
Fletcher says, "How interesting..."
Luhel offers web space for anyone who has none.
Edward chuckles. "Oh, about webspace. We have the space here where the MOO is
to put up Craft pages. That is not a problem.
Edward would like to take the herder and harper ones and mirror them here.
Oriana says, "I'd like to have you simply host the harper pages if you could,
Edward. My account seems to change so rapidly that it's really annoying to
move all the time."
Edward nods. "Sure."
Aeia says, "Don't bother mirroring my sites, Edward.  I change the pages every
week or so.  There is stuff that needs constant updating; I've enough of a
problem with the fact that the personal pages for Herders were done by a
Herder who wants to keep them on her site."
Fletcher hmmms.  "Okay, so is everything discussed about that we wanted to? 
Thanks for bringing that up, Kira."
Oriana says, "Huntercraft, Fletcher."
Bronwyn nods.  "I have to go, anyway.  If anyone else feels the need to
discuss the weavercraft with me, I'd be happy to respond to moomail, but I've
got to go."
Kira says to Bronwyn, "Thanks for coming. :)"
Bronwyn grins.  "no prob!"
Edward nods. "Up to you Aeia."
Fletcher nods.  "Some of the Crafts practiced on Pern have no central
Crafthalls because they are simply too widespread or too routine.  Among such
occupations are winecraft, hunting, cooking, trading, and art"  - DLG, pp.76
Bronwyn waves.  "Bye everyone."
Bronwyn goes home.
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon can answer question about weaver if you
like.
Aeia says, "Just link to my pages, Edward.  I'm active enough with their
maintenance, and I'll continue to be when I head into NPChood."
Fletcher says, "Now, my vintners (such as they are) just have a room in the
Hold and the vineyard.  Cooks have their rooms and the kitchen.  I don't have
any artisians or traders.  But the Hunters have their own Hall with fully
ranked Masters, etc.""
I don't understand that.
Edward says, "Linked already Aeia."
Luhel nods "Yes that's why were are just a cot type hold, to house those
interested, Full -craft was dropped when past master left, Discussed and
really downsized with Oriana's suggestions.
Oriana says, "What's the organization of it now, Luhel?"
Fletcher says, "I don't have a difficulty with Hunters existing as a Hold
Craft.  Maybe having or using a meeting hall. But I really don't see the
ICness or the whole reason for them having their own Hall and having full
ranks.  I interpret Hold Crafts as being unofficial sorts of things. 
Someone's in charge and teaches those who want to be taught.  They call
themselves Masters, but they don't have like equal in rank to a full Craft
Master."
Luhel says, "But We do need some leadership to keep newbees from making fools
chasing and killing in Harper Hall."
Oriana snorts. "Yes, please, let's keep the hunting out of the Harper Hall."
:)
Fletcher says, "Yes, Luhel.  You need someone in charge as I said.  But why
your own Hall?  And why so many?  Heather recently became a Miner posted to
Blacksands and she, Ataris, and I agree on her alone with maybe three
Apprentices.  How many people do the Hunters have?"
Seamus smirks.  "Let them.  Then we can have trials, arrests, prisoners,
exiles, etc...  RP! :) :) :)"
Luhel says, "I try Oriana , I try...kids can go wild."
Edward laughs. "Hate to see them hunt in dolphin hall, end up drowning."
With an intense look of concentration, D'thon's eyes unfocus as he wanders off
to think about verbs.
Oriana says, "How large is the Hunter Hall's cot, for instance? Is it, as
Fletcher suggests, a meeting hall and/or training grounds?  Or do most of your
crafters live on the premises?"
Edward says, "They can train in the Courtyard"
Luhel says, "we have 8 3 of which are very active."
Edward says, "That's where they'd train ICly anyways. Think of a hold as a
castle."
Luhel says, "We will train in wood, not courtyard."
Oriana points out, "You can't very well practice forest skills in the
courtyard, Edward."
Fletcher nods to Edward.  "Eight hunters.  That's as many as the Weavers,
almost!  I really don't see why Hunters need their own Hall.  They should live
in the Hold."
D'thon wanders back into the room, after having considered verbs for a time.
Oriana says, "Do they live at the Hunter Hall?  I agree - I would think that
most of the hunters would live on cotholds or in the hall."
Oriana says, "Hold, I mean."
You say, "Can the current hunter "cothold" be attatched to the hold somehow?"
With an intense look of concentration, D'thon's eyes unfocus as he wanders off
to think about verbs.
Luhel says, "I think they need identity, Need to be closer, like maybe link
hunter cot/hall to Ista courtyard and a back door to forests that already
exist?"
Oriana says, "Perhaps simply closer to the Hold. Just up the ridge from the
Hold Valley, perhaps? That's forest there, and is close to the herder hall and
to Grinstead."
The daemon speaks in B'ran's voice, "Hunters shouldn't exist as a cract,
Weavers shouldn't exist as a craft. What's next, Fletcher? Healers?"
D'thon wanders back into the room, after having considered verbs for a time.
Brian drifts into unconsciousness.
Luhel says, "When Gawain was cook at farm we supplied him a boar or wherry a
week in exchange for meals."
Brian wakes with a start.
Fletcher says, "Exactly why I drew the contrast, Edward."
Fletcher says, "The Hunters shouldn't have as many people as a full real
Craft, IMHO.  Maybe a master with a journeyman and a couple apprentices."
Edward says, "Fletcher, unless Kira wants to step in and say otherwise the
CANON crafts are autonomous.""
D'thon says, "Hmmm, a hall with canon.  Wouldn't that be a fort?"
Oriana says, "I'd sort of consider that hunting would be a holder's day-job,
that kind of thing."
Kira pokes D'thon.
Oriana grins at D'thon.
Fletcher blinks at Edward.  "Hey, if I ever remove the Weaver Hall's exit,
then get down my back.  I made a suggestion, eh?"
You say, "Well, here's my take on the hunter thing."
Fletcher nods and listens.
The daemon speaks in B'ran's voice, "Why limit numbers of crafters. That's
plain ludicrous. If the interest is there, would you rather them go to a
different moo to be hunters?"
Luhel says, "Well, we do not recruit, but have no lack of players wanting to
hunt, turn them away weekly, It is a really good training ground fro newbees
from the more violent MUD world."
You say, "I think it's fine that we have hunters.  Just as it's fine that we
have hold guards.  Both have a builder now.  Both can use the craft parent to
sort out their own internal "ranks".  But I do think that neither should be
using titles such as "master", "Journeyman", or "apprentice", titles more
associated with traditional crafts."
You say, "I'd also like to see the hunter "hall" be connected to the hold or
otherwise be close so that people know where it is.  connected would be
better."
Oriana says, "I agree, Luhel. The idea is that you have teachers, and people
that are taught and perform the duties that need doing - just as the Hold
Scribe would do."
Luhel says, "Yes, some of the wild new players that started as hunters have
moved on , I encourage that ."
Luhel and thinks same is true in gaurds.
Shaival doesn't want to hear about wild players.:P
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "Okay."
Oriana says, "Perhaps a bit of a solution would be to use the military style
ranks, rather than the craft-style ranks?"
D'thon says to Luhel, "I thought you did a wonderful job with that one newbie,
Brazenmouth Orc-Slayer.  She's much calmer now.  ;>"
Oriana can't help but laugh at that.
Edward is not going to limit the number of crafters in his hall. Yeah, that'll
work Oriana. 
Luhel says, "Thank you D'thon, I hate dragons, but love good clean Rp
:laughing:"
You say, "Also, Luhel, are you in charge of the hunters now?"
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon laughs at D'thon.
Pintarryth snorts at Luhel malevolently.
Luhel says, "Three of us share it."
Edward suggests they live in hold and are part of the hold guard. Every
military organization has what would be classified as /woodsmen/
Luhel says, "ans all have same goal, to encourage RP, more flying mug bragging
than actual hunting, and also we are available for search and rescue in the
woods."
Oriana hmms. "That's not a bad idea, Edward."
You say, "One other difference between a "hold craft" and a normal craft, is
that unlike a regular craft, you DO owe allegiance to the LH.  He's your
superior, since he's the LH and effectively your boss."
Kira looks at Ed, "Yeah actually.... the guards need members.  Hunters dont
have mu ch to do.  Why dont the hunters become the guard?"
Kira looks at Fletcher and Luhel.
Luhel  is both , has been for long time.
Fletcher smiles?  "Yeah, I'd totally go for that, especially since I need a
Captain."
Luhel says, "But, hunters are more free-lances than HOLD attched, noting tons
of good RP on Paridise."
Oriana says, "Honestly, with the Hold Craft idea, the hunters at Paradise
should be connected with Paradise, not with the hunters at Ista."
Fletcher says, "That's just the thing, the Hunters SHOULD be hold-attached. 
"
Edward nods. "Then I think the hunter craft buildings should not stand but
should merge tot he hold. Luhel, specialty forces in the army are attached.
Think of the seals, rangers, etc.
Luhel questions"Do gaurds have any object creation that only they can do?
Fletcher says, "They have some things like arresting people, etc."
Luhel to Ed, Pern did not have armies.
In a caricature of Serauber, the daemon's face mystically appears on the
daemon.
You say, "Guards are the only player class that can actually imprison people. 
But that will require considerably more training of your people, and much more
maturity of players than the type that you might have been attracting before."
The daemon speaks in Serauber's voice, "/"
Oriana to Luhel, Pern *did* have armies. Note Fax.
Fletcher says, "True, but I think it'd be good for the Harper and Guards to
merge more.  Yes, very good point, Kira."
Seamus smiles and ponders this.  "By not being a part of the Hold, ICkily,
you'd be giving your Hunters no support.  They'd effectively be Holdless.  No
shelter from Thread, no trade or commerce outside what you could pull off
alone, and you'd still need to abide by their laws when you visited."
Rarah says, "I would rather keep them away from the Holds...   The are a
little bit violent and I would rather keep them away from the Holds."
Fletcher hmmms to Rarah.  "Really?  I haven't seen them in action..."
Luhel notes Rarah that's why a back door to woods mandatory.
Edward says, "Oh they didn't? Nabolese special forces tried to storm the
weyr.""
Oriana says, "Perhaps a Guard, with the ability to imprison, would be the
highest rank a Guard/Hunter could attain. That would assure the maturity level
necessary."
Seamus grins impishly.  "Kin we have the Ista Hold SEAL team?"
Fletcher pokes Seamus.
Luhel says, "Hunters should be providors of food, not malitia."
Oriana grins. "Nah, we got the Dolphineers instead. ;)"
Shaival smirks at Seamus.
Edward grins. "You do. It's called Dolphin Hall ;>"
Seamus chuckles.  "Now /that's/ cross-Crafting. ;)"
Brian says, "Ista Hold DOLPHIN team..."
Edward says, "Luhel, hunters are militia. Think of your history."
Steven Segal says, "I'm just the *cook*."
Fletcher says, "Er, yes, anyways."
Oriana says, "And yet, the training is similar, Luhel. Weapons training, that
kind of thing."
Fletcher says, "Well, I guess Luhel and I can talk about it.  :)"
Saffron nods at Fletcher
Luhel says, "Yes, to Oriana, but the attachment should be less ridged than
miliaty, I think that would give violent impression."
Brian says, "I think merging of hunter and Hold guard _could_ be beneficial to
both.."
Seamus says, "Hunters could do both, I think.  Kind of like the Army Reserve."
In a caricature of Minuet, the daemon's face mystically appears on the daemon.
Luhel says, "but Do not advertise us as Reserve Army, hjust as concern Pernese
willing to help in crisis"
You say, "Well regardless of whether they merge or not, I want to do away with
this air of violence that seems to be part of the hunter hall.  People
obviously percieve the hunters as violent, and I don't like that."
You say, "There's plenty of other stuff we can RP on Pern besides people being
violent towards one another."
Fletcher says, "Last thing *I* wanted to discuss was events/TPs.  I'm going to
aim for at LEAST one event every RL week.  So far I made up a little list:
ball, concert, Amber Star presentations, wedding (mine), Cloudscraper Opening
(new psuedo-bar), fashion show, play (by Harpers), fireworks presentation (I
recall Zion's specialty being alchemy...), dolphin track opening, and a wine
making festival.  And tithe, of course."
Edward nods. "HUnters should be guards. I agree."
Fletcher nods to Kira!
Luhel cheers Kira, that's the only reason it's good we stay far away
Brian says, "Gawyn had the fireworks launchers.."
Luhel says, "Til we get hte wildness off them."
Shaival teases Fletcher about marrying. nervous?:P
In a caricature of M'hael, the daemon's face mystically appears on the daemon.
Saffron smiles,"fletcher is getting handfasted, congrats
Kira says to Luhel, "If you have "wild" people in the hunters, perhaps they
don't belong on HT."
Aeia wants to wrap this up and go pay attention to her boyfriend, so she just
nods and says it all sounds like fun.
Fletcher says, "Yeah?  I think that'd be cool...  Anyways, some of those will
require working with the Crafts which I'd like to do..."
Oriana teases Fletcher. "Your wedding? Who's the poor gal?" ;)
Shaival needs to wrqap up so he can go throttle his broer.
Shaival says, "Er, brother."
Oriana needs to go pay attention to her husband. :)
Edward nods. "Luhel, remember thread is falling. /wild/ people would just be
nothing very soon.
Fletcher says, "Oh, Ataris wanted to talk about the body limitation for Minor
Holds...."
Aeia notes to Shaival that it might be a good idea to do that.
Luhel says, "I have run several off, shape up or ship out."
Edward grins. "Fletcher, I know a minister, it could be /REAL/ :)
D'thon needs to go pay attention to Harper's Tale MOO ...... waitaminnit .....
Aeia gets a shiver at the word 'husband.'
Shaival whistles something scary. Poor Fletcher..:P
Kira says to Fletcher, "mebbe we can discuss that more on the channel or
mailer.  I think everyone's antsy to go. :)"
Fletcher says, "Yes, I see your point.  :)  Okay, thanks for coming,
everyone!!!"
You say, "the minor holds thing, that is."
Seamus has nowhere to go, 'cept ta log in his alt. :P
Fletcher hugs Kira! Kira hugs you back!
Shaival goes home.
D'thon says, "Paul Shaeffer, everybody!  Let's really hear it!  Drive safely! 
G'night!"
Fletcher grins.
Seamus g'nights everybody present.
Brian says to D'thon, "Are you kicking us out?^"
You say, "Btw, thanks to all of yall for being part of HT.  the players make
or break a place, and I think you all help make it great.  Lets keep at it and
make it the best pern around, shall we? ;)"
D'thon says to Brian, "Not in your lifetime, buddy!"
Fletcher smiles to Kira.  "YEAH!!!"
Fletcher hi5s Kira! Kira is hi5'd!
Oriana says, "I can discuss minor holds briefly, in any case."
Aeia waves and smiles to all.
Aeia goes home.
Saffron smiles
Luhel wave bye to all leaving.
Taria materializes from places unknown.
Seamus will remain.
Taria walks with an energetic bounce to her step out to the hallway.
Brian steps away for a moment to scrawl out a message to someone.
You say, "Yes Ataris wanted to talk about the 10-player limit to minor holds."
Fletcher nodnods.
In a caricature of B'ran, the daemon will listen in and speak for weaver if
need be.
Seamus raises his hand. :)
D'thon says to Seamus, "Down the hall to the left."
You say, "My thinking on it was that I don't want the minor holds to have a
ton of players, taking away from action at the main hold and/or weyr..."
Fletcher LAUGHS!!!
Kira grins and pokes D'thon.
Seamus smirks.
You say, "Hey, that's MY office."
Saffron nods and asks,"with new postings to the hold by harpers or whomever it
makes it hard for others to join the hold
Seamus laughs.
You say, "Well the 10-player limit could exclude crafts..."
Saffron grins at D'thon
Seamus says, "This 10-player thingy.  Does that include posted crafters?  Say
I send 2 or 3 Harpers.  Ah.  Alright."
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "But if they don't have enough, then RP there will be
dull.  I like that idea.  10 Holders, Crafters ar extra and not counted."
Saffron nods,"what about kids?
You say, "But, I want to prevent another Paradise from happening, where
practically all of a certain craft had left the main hold and was living in a
minor holding."
Fletcher nods to that!
D'thon says to Saffron, "Excellent when properly cooked."
You say, "The main crafts are at the main hold for a reason."
Oriana says, "I don't really like the idea of definite limits, but I don't
like the idea of taking RP from the hold, either. Perhaps, like with Paradise,
make it a quota limit."
Saffron laughs
Brian nods to Kira, Agreed..
Seamus shakes his head  "Shouldn't happen with the Harpers.  I'd like to send
3 Harpers to each area.  Weyr, Grinstead, and Blacksands."
The daemon speaks in B'ran's voice, "And watchriders too."
Kira says to Seamus, "What if you only have 4 active harpers?  then what?"
Fletcher says, "I really don't think minor Holds should have WRs are standard
accompanyment.  Katherine's at Grinstead because she REALLY wants to be there
and they REALLY want her there.  Just HER, not a WR.  Make sense?"
Oriana says, "Are there enough active Harpers to do that, Seamus? I assume
you're posting regardless of rank."
Saffron looks at Seamus and says,"I don't see a problem with your sending
harpers as long as they don't count because 3 would really take up alot of
quota
The daemon speaks in B'ran's voice, "It is too much of a contrainton someone
such as Yuvi who has a thriving hold to have to include crafters and
watchriders and what they own in their quota."
Edward nods. "Wahtever, Only Blacksands will get a Dolphineer."
You say, "I dont think any minor hold deserves a dedicated watchrider.  Minor
holds should be part of a regular wing's sweep territory, really.  Not that
I've ever seen anyone ride sweeps."
Seamus chuckles.  "Then I'd have to rethink the numbers.  The main thing I'd
like to see is expansion.  The majority of our Harpers have never been further
than the main beach.  We have enough semi-active Harpers to do that.  The main
thing is introducing a single truly active Harper to get things going.  Ones
that show initiative and don't mind "causing trouble"."
Edward says, "Every hold had a harper.""
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "I saw M'hael once!"
Fletcher says, "Not necessarily, Edward.  All the Majors do.  Most of the
Minors are staffed by Route Harpers."
In a caricature of M'hael, the daemon waves about his hand, hearing his name.
:)
Oriana nods at Fletcher's comment. Most holds are covered by Route Harpers.
Edward hrms. "Let's see. Half Circle is a minor hold it had one. Igen sea hold
is a monor and had one. 
You say, "What about the craft-rotation thing we were discussing before? 
Maybe active crafters could switch off among the holds, spending however long
at each of the holds."
D'thon peers at the deamon, recognizing M'hael's face.  :)
Kira says to Edward, "Thats a different sort of "minor hold"."
Fletcher says, "Igen Sea Hold became the Major Hold of Igen Hold in later
years."
Kira says to Edward, "this is more like, I dunno, a one-family dwelling up in
the mountains."
Fletcher says, "Right.  Especially Blacksands."
Edward nods. Okay.
Seamus nods to Edward.  "Exactly.  I'd consider Grinstead larger than a
sub-Hold, but smaller than an actual Hold.  However it actually gets
accomplished, I want Harpers to actually /do/ something instead of staying in
the Hall and kind of idling.  I, personally, feel that the Harpers should
become as familiar with Ista as a whole as they are with just the Hold.  Route
riders is a great alternative."
Oriana says, "I'm really in favor of the rotation thing, myself. Keep things
more active, hopefully - ooh, what duty have I got *this* week?? :)"
Fletcher says, "Yeah, I like that idea, too.  Rotating."
Edward nods. "I need to do something like rotations ofr hte dolphineers. We
are supposed to patrol the seas but we need Seacraft to do that."
Oriana says, "Do you need the Seacraft in order to patrol the coast? Or is
there no coastline to patrol?"
Fletcher says, "There kind of is, Oriana.  I've floated around Ista and the
sea rooms are pretty confusing, IMHO."
You say, "Hrmph, they are not.  I even made maps. :p"
Brian chuckles..
Fletcher says, "Really?  Okay, they seemed confusing to ME.  There were a lot
of places that are just never used..."
Edward grins. "In most cases no coastline plus having a ship to help map the
oceans would be nice. I've assigned people to do that. You have?
Email/fax/them otherwise let me have them.
Kira points at the web page :p
Saffron waves to all,"well folks I am off, nice to see you all and take care:)
Edward hrms?
Kira waves to Saffron. :)
D'thon waves to Saffron!
Saffron goes home.
Pintarryth orders a pan-galactic Gargle Blaster with a kiwi twist.
D'thon says, "Ewwwww"
Brian says, "heh, I can think of better things than a drunk dragon.."
Pintarryth hiccups.
Edward idles for food. I'm logging.
Oriana can think of worse, but they're pretty horrendous.
D'thon says to Brian, "And he's such a sloppy drunk, too."
Oriana says, "So, are we still talking about minor hold player limits?"
Brian chuckles, Hmm, Can't say as I'd wanna be around when he belches..
Pintarryth says to D'thon, "I am ... not." 
Oriana lists heavily to starboard, head flopping.. "I'm not as think as you
drunk I am," she protests, slurring.
Luhel Higs Oriana
You say, "euw."
Kira . o O (whats a hig?)
D'thon says, "Gee, he higged her."
Oriana didn't even notice, luckly.
Brian lol....  
D'thon says to Kira, "Hey, babee, howz about you 'n' me go somewhere and ....
hig!  ;>"
Kira grins.  "Sounds good to me, lets go." ;)
Luhel says, "It's the best thing that could possibly happen to you. cept the
herders will want them."
Oriana laughs.
D'thon says, "Actually, the only problem with setting expressed rules about
resident limitations is that there are always loopholes.  Ask me.  I'm a
lawyer."
D'thon says, "For example ..."
D'thon says, "You limit it to 10, but don't count crafters posted."
You say, "then someone could post 50 crafters there and we have the same
situation as before."
Luhel searches web for lawyer jokes.
D'thon says, "All the s decide to post themselves there"
Brian pokes the lawyer...
Rarah says, "I am wondering... How many Healers do you want posted... and
where?"
D'thon says, "Bingo"
D'thon says, "Save it, folks.  I've heard absolutely all of them.  :)"
Oriana grins.
Kira snugs D'thon! D'thon is absolutely bowled over by your snug! The two of
you go rolling around tangled up in snugs!
Brian says to D'thon, "That sounds suspiciously like a challenge..."
D'thon sighs.
D'thon says, "What have you got when you have a lawyer buried in cement up to
his chin?"
D'thon says, "Not enough cement."
You say, "aww."
D'thon says, "What's the diff between a dead skunk in the road and a dead
lawyer?"
Oriana says, "So, like, these three guys are stranded in a lifeboat just a few
hundred yards from the florida coast, surrounded by sharks.  Heard that one,
D'thon? ;)"
Luhel says, "what do you call 10,000 lawyersunder the sea?"
D'thon says, "There are skid marks leading up to the skunk."
Luhel says, "A good start"
D'thon says to Luhel, "a good start"
Y'sil says, "Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer."
D'thon says, "I spent three years at law school and virtually every day since
hearing these.  :)"
Fletcher laughs!!!
Seamus chuckles.
D'thon says, "The other day it was so cold I saw a lawyer with his hands in
his *own* pockets!"
In a caricature of Serauber, the daemon's face disappears from the daemon.
Brian says, "So, OK, limit it to 10 holders, and trust craft leadership to not
post all their crafters to a minor hold.. Treat any problems if they arise.."
Fletcher nods to Brian.
Kira snugs D'thon and thinks he's the nicest lawyer I know.  (not that I know
that many) :)
Brian says, "We *pointing around the room* know the INTENT of the rule.."
D'thon says to Kira, "And you're easily the nicest Archwizard I know."
You say, "All right.  10 non-posted hold residents.  that includes kids.  And
yeah.  CM's need to use their judgement.  Bad judgement on your part tends to
make me mad. :p"
Fletcher knows Kira's the nicest archwiz HE'S ever known.
In a caricature of Minuet, the daemon's face disappears from the daemon.
You say, "Well thanks.  And contrary to popular belief, I really dont nuke
people or eat firelizards for breakfast."
You say, "and I didnt really sink paradise and it'll be open again in a few
days at most."
D'thon says to Kira, "Well, there was that *one* firelizard ..."
Oriana grins. "Awww. And here we've been trying so hard to build up your
image, Kira!"
You say, "and I dont breathe fire..."
Seamus thought /everyone/ knew how to breathe fire...
Kira pokes D'thon.
Fletcher chuckles and patpat's Kira.  "It's tough being a leader.  We take
more drek from people."
Sylke hugs Kira! Kira hugs you back!
D'thon says to Kira, "I've been meaning to say something about that fire
breath thing ..."
Brian sighs disappointedly... "No fire"?
Seamus takes no drek. :)
Luhel says, "well fletch, then maybe you should't be one?"
Pintarryth says, "Breath fire?  Thash easy!"
You say, "And I really do listen to everyone and try to fix the problems and
make things better for all."
Kira lobs a rock at Pintarryth.
Seamus grins at Pintarryth.
Oriana ducks the drunk Pintarryth.
You say, "except for smart-assed bronzes, sometimes."
Pintarryth sticks his tongue out at Kira.
Fletcher says, "Hey, I didn't ASK for this job, Luhel."
The daemon speaks in Sylke's voice, "Ok, Fletch, Luhel, let's not go there."
Fletcher nods to Kira.  "We know."
Fletcher hugs Kira! Kira hugs you back!
Kidwyn materializes from places unknown.
Pintarryth exclaims, "Look! It's Kidwyn!"
D'thon says to Pintarryth, "Shhh!  It's not polite to point."
Rarah says, "Do you need a physical Kidwyn?"
Kidwyn hides behind a convienent chair. "Shh!"
Pintarryth mumbles, "Oh, sorry."
Oriana grins. "Hi, Kidwyn. :)  What about breathing fire, D'thon?"
Kira tries feeding some firestone to D'thon to see if he breathes fire. :)
Fletcher thinks this is quickly going downhill and heads out to do some work. 
:)
Fletcher returns to the place from whence he came.